Have you ever considered the parallels between fighting fires and pastoring a church? Of course you have – metaphorically.
In this episode I interview Jon, the founder of SmallTownBigChurch.com, co-host of the EntrePastors podcast, and author of Rural Church RESCUE: A Call to Restore Healthy Churches to Rural North America.
We talk about how he uses the principles he learned as a firefighter to help churches better understand how to do ministry that matters. The parallels between the roles of firefighters and pastors are vivid, and the lessons are clear.
Subjects include:
- The need for a clear mission and vision
- The need to adapt
- The necessity of training
- Working as a team
and much more.
Link from this Episode
Support This Work
Click here to support this work on a one-time or ongoing basis. This will help us continue to put these resources into the hands of the ministries that need them the most.
Want More?
Listen and subscribe to the podcast on all major platforms including
APPLE | SPOTIFY | STITCHER | AMAZON MUSIC | iHEART RADIO | GOOGLE PLAY
New episodes are available every month.
If you click here to subscribe to our free weekly newsletter you’ll get all the breaking podcast news early!
Also, if you have any other ideas or guests that might fit this podcast, let me know in the comment section, below.
Credits
Producer
Veronica Beaver | [email protected]
Editor
Phil Vaters | [email protected]
Music composed and performed by
Jack Wilkins | JackWilkinsMusic.com
Podcast logo created by
Solomon Joy | Joyetic.com
Correspondence
Shelley Vaters | Shelley@KarlVaters.com

How Can We Follow the Example of the Good Shepherd?
Following Jesus’ example as the Good Shepherd requires lots of continued prayer, humility, and a willingness to be corrected and guided by him along the way.

Recalibrate: 10 Steps Every Church Must Take Now, Or Be Dead In A Decade
Everything but Jesus and the Bible must be on the table.

Helping Small Churches Win Guests, with Desmond Barrett (Ep 103)
“If the neighborhood does not realize that the church is alive, the church must begin to reengage and develop connections by going outside its walls.”
Author
-
Karl Vaters produces resources for Helping Small Churches Thrive at KarlVaters.com.
He's the author of five books on church leadership, including his newest, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next. His other books include The Grasshopper Myth and Small Church Essentials.
Karl also hosts a bi-weekly podcast, The Church Lobby: Conversations on Faith & Ministry, featuring in-depth interviews about topics that concern pastors, especially those who minister in a small church context. He has served in small-church ministry for over 40 years, so he speaks and writes from decades of hands-on pastoral experience.
You can follow Karl on Facebook, Instagram, X, YouTube, and LinkedIn, or Contact Karl to inquire about speaking, writing, and consultation.
View all posts