Have you ever considered the parallels between fighting fires and pastoring a church? Of course you have – metaphorically.
In this episode I interview Jon, the founder of SmallTownBigChurch.com, co-host of the EntrePastors podcast, and author of Rural Church RESCUE: A Call to Restore Healthy Churches to Rural North America.
We talk about how he uses the principles he learned as a firefighter to help churches better understand how to do ministry that matters. The parallels between the roles of firefighters and pastors are vivid, and the lessons are clear.
Subjects include:
- The need for a clear mission and vision
- The need to adapt
- The necessity of training
- Working as a team
and much more.
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Credits
Producer
Veronica Beaver | [email protected]
Editor
Phil Vaters | [email protected]
Music composed and performed by
Jack Wilkins | JackWilkinsMusic.com
Podcast logo created by
Solomon Joy | Joyetic.com
Correspondence
Shelley Vaters | Shelley@KarlVaters.com

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Author
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Karl Vaters produces resources for Helping Small Churches Thrive at KarlVaters.com.
He's the author of five books on church leadership, including his newest, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next. His other books include The Grasshopper Myth and Small Church Essentials.
Karl also hosts a bi-weekly podcast, The Church Lobby: Conversations on Faith & Ministry, featuring in-depth interviews about topics that concern pastors, especially those who minister in a small church context. He has served in small-church ministry for over 40 years, so he speaks and writes from decades of hands-on pastoral experience.
You can follow Karl on Facebook, Instagram, X, YouTube, and LinkedIn, or Contact Karl to inquire about speaking, writing, and consultation.
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